Below, you will find the second part of the interview with Morgana. Here, we are talking about spirituality, sacredness, Gods and Nature in Wiccan path.
What is, in your opinion, the future of Wicca and spirituality in modern world?
I think Wicca has its place as a religion, as a mystery tradition. It wouldn’t, though, I think, if people are going to try to make it a doctrine or more dogmatic. That form of Wicca will probably not have future. In my opinion, if more and more people realize that religion, the word itself, means to link people with something greater, then Wicca definitely will have a place, if we prepare to link with other people and to be open to other ways, other people, reach out to other cultures, to not be afraid of them. I think we have a lot to offer certainly if it comes to our connection with the earth, with nature, with the starry heavens, with the cosmos.
But I’d say that one of the biggest things we do have to offer is that we have this direct communication with the gods which is also often found with indigenous people, so I think in that sense we have a lot to offer young people because we don’t necessarily have to have a system, we don’t necessarily have to be initiated into a specific tradition like Wicca. You can still have the Wiccan idea of e.g. connecting with the Sacred Feminine, the goddess side. It is very important, so I don’t think that side of will fade away.
I think more and more people begin to connect to this idea of the earth as a living entity. I mean it’s kind of bizarre that people haven’t held on to that, that the earth is a living entity. This is exactly what I think sometimes the Church and Christianity and the Abrahamic religions lost: this sense of the earth as being a living entity, and the respect for Mother Earth, and the devotion the early mystics had. But again, many of the indigenous people have continued that practice, so I think people involved in Wicca should be more and more prepared to be open to ideas from indigenous people and react to their ways, of course in a sense that we can join in without misappropriating their cultures. Thus, we’ll have more and more respect for the land, more respect for other people’s cultures.
I think religion also has a very cultural aspect. The more we become accepting of different views, the more likely we’ll be able to continue and preserve Wicca. But it’s only if people are willing to be a little bit more organic about things. It seems that people are looking much more for a natural approach, however you define natural. And even more people are looking for a one-to-one connection, so even atheists are doing this, because what they want to do is have their own one-to-one experience. They don’t want rules by the Pope or anybody else. I can get on with atheist, because I can appreciate scientific progression and we have a common ground to appreciate certain things, like art or the creative process. Religion can help us to be linked, but it requires much more openness and acceptance that we are all part of the earth, we are responsible for it. It depends on how willing we are to alter our consciousness and to be really very flexible. I think that we should, like the indigenous people, try to understand the essence of being.
Now, a difficult question: how do you understand the nature of sacred in Wicca, and our connections to it?
The important thing is that we try to connect to this life force, that we have this sense of wonder, and engage in a mystical experience. I think it’s this idea, which children have naturally and this is a kind of continuance of this wonderment. Whether you express that in connection with a god or a goddess or a nature spirit, it is connecting with the divine, but it’s perhaps more than that. It’s actually also following the – I know it sounds kind of cheesy – but the kind of footprint of the gods and the rivers.
When people come to me and want to for example join our guidance course then one of the first things we’ll ask someone who they are and where they are coming from, who were your ancestors, what’s your connection with the lands, the connection to your own town etc. It is mainly to let people realize that perhaps as a child they had a secret place where they felt at one with surroundings, or a favourite tree, or a particular stone or connections with an animal and so on. It doesn’t necessarily have to be a place in nature, it can be a book, or an object like a stone, too. Then, they actually realise that when they’re doing the guidance course, they’re in fact reconnecting and then in some cases realise that they have never actually lost that connection. It’s something that inspires them and whether it’s the myths that they loved or the fairy tales that their parents would read to them or tell them the stories it’s this connection that inspires you, it ‘lifts’ you. Connecting to this mystical experience is so important now.
Do you think our roots and background are very important in it?
As I say most of us have Pantheon’s to which we feel more connected to. It again tells us something about our own paths, about our own ancestors so I think this is why it’s really vitally important that people continue that, even if you travel. For example, I’ve had people, say, in Australia, but they still feel connected to the English countryside or if they’re Irish and they’ve moved to America, they still feel connected to Ireland. All these different things which make up our personality are all important. I have an English background, and it’s so important to me to really connect with it, with the Spirits of the Land, because that’s what connects you to your ancestral. People may come across a few things which they’re not particularly proud of, you know, I mean I as somebody who was born in in England or Wales having a British background I can say British have had a lot of black pages in their history, the colonial past, and all the rest of, it but even that is very important to recognize and acknowledge.
Educators always said that the first seven years of a baby’s life are the most important so wherever you were in those first seven years that would be so significant for the rest of your life, you cannot ever erase that and how many people try to forget, I will try to put it out, and it always leads to problems In the Netherlands we have people who are from Suriname, but they’ve got a Hindu backgrounds, coming from Indonesia, and even though they have lived in Europe or being born here, they still have this feeling that something is not quite right, so if their grandparents don’t want to talk about what’s happened to them then, it starts to be a big problem. So I also think it’s actually quite good right from the beginning to acknowledge and familiarise myself with my background; what do I feel naturally drawn to, when and in which situation do I feel comfortable. It’s all coming back down to a recognition of who we are as a soul, as a sentient being. Thus, we’re also becoming able to understand other people.
In magical work, perhaps we have to reach out a little bit further than other people. I’m interested in their background because it helps me to understand my history as well.
I’d like to talk about our beliefs, things like reincarnation or The Threefold Law. How important are they for you?
Let’s start with reincarnation. I personally believe in it, but it doesn’t necessarily mean that everybody else does. I think that’s one thing that’s quite nice about the whole Wiccan philosophy: because I believe something doesn’t mean that somebody else believes it too. I do think there is something like reincarnation because there are so many things that have happened to me in my life where I thought; I couldn’t have known that if I hadn’t been around before. I can believe that I was perhaps a priestess in another life and that’s valid for me if it helps me to understand something in this life. Some people will see the afterlife differently than I do and maybe I can learn from them as well because I would be interested how they see life after death. Or maybe if they don’t, what happens after death according to them?. That would be interesting to hear. I think I have an idea what happens to my soul after death, because I’ve had some experiences, beyond the veil. All these things are very important but are not the same for everybody.
I don’t believe in this idea of karma as being the Law of Retribution or something like that. I prefer to have something like the belief that we have the Web of Wyrd and that everything we do, or think, resonates, on the web. And thinking about the Threefold Law, I don’t necessarily call it threefold, I think whenever we break our oath, there will be some sort of retribution, that the Gods will repay you. Retribution, yes, but it’s a different retribution than in Christianity. I see the Rede and Threefold Law as guidelines, not commandments.
What do you think about ethics in Wicca? We don’t have many rules, but still, I see Wicca as a very ethical religion. What is your opinion?
There is a common etiquette. There are some unwritten rules. You know instantly that you do not have to have a disclaimer, you know when something’s not correct. I believe that everything you do has an effect. People ask me whether I believe in evil, so I say: No I don’t. What I believe is that you can do something at the right moment in the right place and it can be perceived as being good. On another occasion perhaps you do something and the timing wasn’t good or the place wasn’t good and it turns out to be destructive, and is perceived as being negative, or bad. . Sometimes I may do something that turns out to be negative, maybe because at the time of doing it I hadn’t had proper information. Had I had it, I would have made a completely different decision. But then, if you do something you regret, you must try and rectify it, it’s a personal responsibility.
What about the Gods themselves? How do you see them?
If we look at the core beliefs, for example the duotheistic or polytheistic approach, again, it’s okay if we accept that there are many gods. Who am I to determine how you see the gods? So I think there is this core belief that there are many gods, there are many creative forces, which can be seen as guiding us. For example, when talking about the Moon, it doesn’t necessarily mean a goddess; the Moon, as I perceive it, isn’t of a particular gender.
We talk about God and Goddess, Lord and Lady, which are really titles. I quite like the idea of the Lord and Lady or the Lady of the Harvest or the Lord of the Hunt, and so on. The core values are to respect the world of nature… to look at the influence of, if you like, this creative energy, and to use our imagination to make that connection with the spiritual world.
Wicca also gives us this one-to-one connection, the first-hand experience. It is the basis of our training in the priesthood, which is important in the context of the Gods. I always understood that the priesthood also had a connection with the community, but that’s not necessarily true for all. Some people see the priesthood as only being a priesthood and not having very much to do with community. However, I ask myself, why would I want to be a priestess, if I didn’t want to help the community? Some will say No, we don’t want to be involved in such things. Well, in Christianity there are also monks and nuns who live their lives in solitude, and we too have different approaches. I think personally that it’s important to engage in interfaith, for example, or to engage in the community as a spiritual leader
As the last question, I’d like to ask you if you have anything specific that you’d like to talk about and I haven’t asked about it?
Yes, actually there is one thing that people never ask me, and I’d like them to ask it to themselves. It is: What can Wicca offer me? And it’s also important to know what we can offer to new people who come to Wicca. Different people are asking about Wicca, sometimes young, sometimes older ones who have heard about it some time ago, but didn’t have the chance to become Wiccan because they were busy with life. If they ask what we can offer them, I can honestly say: “I can give you a really good, bumpy ride!” But really, we can offer them a very good chance to learn, to reflect on themselves, to help them find their own way.
In the guidance course, I say to people: “When you send me your notes, it’s not to please me; you’re doing it to please yourself”. I think it’s such an eye-opener to a lot of people. They reflect on what makes them happy, how they can resonate with seasons, what can happen if they follow the Moon, connect with Nature. What we’re doing is giving people the instruments and skills, so that they can actually help themselves to find their own way, their own path to this magical, mystery religion.
Obviously, you being in Wicca for 40 years, must mean that it both still offers you something, and that you offer something to it. I think that’s because our tradition is dynamic, ever-changing.
Absolutely, dynamic, that’s what it is. It is organic. I think what is important in Wicca is the Law of Polarity: hot and cold, up and down. Between these two poles there is dynamism, which is so creative. It helps us to move.
The other important aspect is balance, a stable moment of harmony. Usually we don’t have it, but there are these moments of a complete balance, in which you feel at ease. That’s the way to heal, also, because the Wiccan way is an ongoing process. It is a continual way of healing ourselves. Sometimes things are rough and sometimes you feel betrayed, you can feel all sorts of things but you know you can filter things and regain that sense of harmony. Whether it’s in the dark of the night, or bright of the day, we can look for these moments of peace. I can feel really super happy, because I realize how positive it all can be, how much it really does help me to get through life not just get through life, but also feel that I can make a difference, help to make other people happy. In that way it’s always a source of energy for me.
Even if we don’t necessarily feel always healthy and happy, we know there exists this place when we can be so, whether it’s in your astral temple or hugging your favourite tree, there is always this place where you can go and feel at ease, at home. That is what Wicca can offer, too.
As the sun sets, so shall it rise
And so too shall I rise, to meet the new dawn
Blessed be!